Playing with a Big Band

i totally agree suspira! Not saying that my advice was valid, but to slag off great advice from JoesM or GAM or anybody else who gave valid advice...its not right

Guilty party right here! Sort of? I am the one that said reading is a must, plus some really important context that people left out. Seriously guys... Did I or anyone else on here say reading is a must in all big band contexts? I know I didn't. Talk about people reading what they want to read.

Rafael please read what I said in my reply especially the part where I quote myself on what I really said about reading charts. I feel people choosing to only read a portion of what I actually wrote started this whole ugly side of thing. I'd like to make my part in the advice given on the topic to be as clear as possible.

And to lighten the mood... Did we ever get an answer to what "chopping wood" is? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2005 01:31 PM: Message edited by: Zak Morton ]</font>

They will expect you to read if you play big-band. Buddy Rich was his own employer for a while so he could set his own rules. Dennis would have to rehearse tunes he was unfamiliar with.

Hey guys let's take a few steps back for a moment.

"Newcomer" Raph came in & asked a legit ? for advice & help. Let's put aside our personal 'ways of logic & thinking" & let hime get the good advice from those of us, & not make him have to wade through a veteran's War & Peace Diatribe on opinions about reading in relation to music. [img]confused.gif[/img] [img]eek.gif[/img]

Now, I must admit, when I first read your post, Raph, I raised an eyebrow that you would take this type of gig with that short of notice, implying that you hadn't played or listened to much BB [unless I got the wrong impression]...my first impression was, wow, you're going to have to learn a style that takes a good many yrs to master & then pull it off...but then I didn't want to jinx/hex/vex/discourage you in any way shape or form. Because if you have big ears, a great memory, & the ability to play, drive hard [propel], & SWING, you might pull it off, depending on the level of said BB, & how much authentic BB listening [suggested by paraflar] you can cram in the preceding in-between time!

But this style of music is not one that if you've never played or listened much to it, that you can just dive in & swim the marathon, IMHO, unless you're one of those rare breed such as Buddy or Dennis, as the great Peter E said. It sounded a little bit of naievete, but i could be wrong about that. Try your best, & take the initial advice. You'll find out soon enough if it was wise to take on the gig, but it's good that you did, because it can turn out to be a great learning experiemnce for you if you allow it, even if it turns out seemingly "negative" [not saying it will!]. I don't know your level of skill as a plyer, nor your 'big ears' facilty, so i can't make a judgement regardig that.

I think we're just going in circles, passing each other on the freeway here. No one is saying reading isn't an important facet. Some just expressed that reading in & of itself is not MUSIC. Unless you're a great MUSICIAN FIRST. [img]wink.gif[/img] But reading is an awesome tool of facility, ESP in this day & age, now [where everything is wanted YESTERDAY! [img]tongue.gif[/img] ]. All is being said is, music came first & evolved, & reading came 2nd, & evolved, as a result. Vinnie speaks of this concept of philosophy, that music came first & writing/reading it as a result of hearing it & wanting to learn how to interpret & master it as a result. I think the statement "one doesn't have to know how to read in order to speak" is an OK analogy. But that also isn't justifying to not learn how, either. But hey, if you don't want to learn to read, & have an incredible memory, "improvisational" ability, & pair of ears, that's your deal! More power to ya! ;c)

Flar was simply intimating that it's not necessarily very pleasant hearing a "book smart" player who can't feel or interpret improvisationally or on an intuitive level the music at hand [a fundamental for any good muso, obviously], one who sounds stiff as if they're reading it down; that one must learn to play music firstly as most important, to rely on your ears, mind & innate memory, & heart/soul; & hopefully, reading, a mastered tool as a result a close second to your existing playing ability]. But if you are like another Chambers or BR, then more power to ya'!! There are exceptions... [img]wink.gif[/img]

So, to anyone whom it may concern, learn to read when you find [make] the time! And most importantly, LEARN TO LISTEN & 'HEAR' IT, & FEEL IT IN YOUR SOUL & BONES...& play it that way. :-)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2005 03:44 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

Sorry, dbl-post [so I'll edit:]

Oh yeah...encore..."one more time!" [old Star Trek TV episode: Captain Kirk: "NO! NOT 'one...more...time!!,'" as the loon w the alien-space-disease is singing "I'll Take You Home Again, Kathleen" for the umpteenth time over the jammed-up Enterprise PA system! [img]wink.gif[/img] ] -
reading is a great facility! Learn how if & when you can! The ability isn't to be trivialized.
But play music first - that's most important!

You are ALL right!...[& I'm with D Francis' last one, too]... ;c)

I decided last week, when I log onto the scant few forums that I do, that I'm NOT going to take others' opins personally...well, MOST, if'n ah kin hepp it!! /;cP Did it twice in here - the first, I won't re-mention [it's not worth it]; the second, the Bellucci thread...apologies to nev, Frank, & anyone else if they interpreted opins in a bad way...I've adapted my thinking & responses for the better [i hope], now. Eh, who cares, I'm rambling to m'seff here! ;cP

& I'm w Zak..."chopping wood," anyone?! [img]wink.gif[/img] [Sorry, my first drumset teach, who was a BB drumr, didn't have that particular phrase of slang in his NYC accent repertoire, which seems strange - or maybe I wasn't LISTENING [small ears ATT!] ;cp

Eh, I was young, dumb, & full of beans [pee, & vinegar]!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2005 02:15 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

Holy cow!
Why is Gota matchgrip that only one the understands what was being said by me? It's not hard to understand, nor was I putting down reading.
Second, I don't like to boast. I think I may have to here though. Let me just say that I probably play and have played more big band than anyone in here including Peter Erskine. I've played in the Mingus Big Band, The pit orchestra of City Of Angels, The local musicians union big band, and many many many others. And I've directed several high school big bands. Not only have I played more big band, but I've done more professional drumming period than 90% of you in here. John's post broke the straw, because his cluelessness about the instrument(nevermind music), combined with his attitude of not only speaking wrong information but YELLING it, has made me come forth.

Regardless Groove nailed it. It's about people learning music, and I agree. Big Band drumming or any kind of drumming, is not figures and shout chorus' on paper. You need to know how to read and interpret music on paper, but you don't have to in order to play it. This is a proven fact, regardless of what a Peter Erskine says, or anyone. I do shows without reading all the time! Memorization happens! I knew the entire City Of Angels book after only 3 shows. I didn't use music after that. WOW! I must have innate talent. Oh come on! I'm not Dennis nor Buddy, not even close, but I can learn music without having to read. So can you! I can also read very well, and would discourage that tool. But I'll be the first to say, sure, people have done without for years, and those people will always be around.

And John the fact that can't let go of the Vinnie and Jazz thing proves to me, that jazz is beyond your comprehension as is music itself. Maybe you should stick to your copy of Syncopation, and Stick Control, while some of us go out and play music. Read and work out of books as much as you want. By the way, invite me to your next gig.
Oh forgot, there isn't one.
See what happens, when you run your mouth?!? hahaha....

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2005 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Flarobstix ]</font>

Someone do something terrible, I'm getting heartburn.

Flarob...You leave me speachless yet again.

Hi, I am back from my first rehearsal with the big band. It is great to play with a big band!

This big band is from my music school. We are rehearsing and learning how to play in a big band.
It was difficult to play without knowing how to read the charts well. I will definetly study more chart reading, practice with CD's and listen to the music you recommended.
I am 23, playing drums for almost 8 years, most of my gigs are rock, pop/rock and some blues and brazilian music.

Every monday the big band will rehearse so I got one more week to study.

I have read all the posts, thank you for all suggestions/opinions.

I give up. Thank god Rafael got something from this.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2005 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Zak Morton ]</font>

Quote:

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Not only have I played more big band, but I've done more professional drumming period than 90% of you in here

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You talk a good talk, flarobstinx...let's see you back up it up with some sound files. I believe that was what John was referring to.